This post is inspired by the previous HSV post.
I have had oral herpes since I was a kid. Before I ever engage in any sexual activity beyond kissing, I make sure to ask about std's and make my barrier preferences known, but I find it difficult to discuss oral herpes before kissing,since kissing tends to be a more spur of the moment than sex; why would I bring up oral herpes to someone before I know if Im going to kiss them, and how do I discuss oral herpes when I know a kiss is going to happen?
Any folks with oral herpes out there who can share their relevant experiences? Thanks
I have had oral herpes since I was a kid. Before I ever engage in any sexual activity beyond kissing, I make sure to ask about std's and make my barrier preferences known, but I find it difficult to discuss oral herpes before kissing,since kissing tends to be a more spur of the moment than sex; why would I bring up oral herpes to someone before I know if Im going to kiss them, and how do I discuss oral herpes when I know a kiss is going to happen?
Any folks with oral herpes out there who can share their relevant experiences? Thanks
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Re: When have you told?
Sun, June 11, 2006 - 12:21 PMI agree with you. I have had oral herpes for 26 years and I tell all my sexual partners before sex, I try to tell before kissing but sometimes it does not happen that way. I do not tell casual kissers, you know, when you are saying hello and goodby and you do quick kisses.
I do take acylocir every day which cuts down on transmitting the virus and outbreaks.
I caught it from kissing someone and I got very sick, high fever, etc. when I went back to him and told him, he did not beleive me, he insisted he had sun blisters from sking. I do not want to do to anyone else what he did to me. I am extremely careful and as far as I know I have not given it to anyone. -
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Re: When have you told?
Sun, June 11, 2006 - 6:42 PMI've had a similar problem in that I've never had any herpes symptoms, but an ex broke out after taking acne medication that lowers your immune system. Talking to doctors, I've been told that nothing can be done without symptoms in terms of testing, and that it's very possible to be a carrier for years before breaking out. considering how common these things are, what do you tell someone? that you MIGHT have herpes? over 30% of the students at my school have herpes according to my school health center. -
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 7:20 AM"Talking to doctors, I've been told that nothing can be done without symptoms in terms of testing, and that it's very possible to be a carrier for years before breaking out."
Not true anymore. Read my post about HSV earlier--lots of people chimed in with more info.
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 5:03 PMsorry, perhaps you could repeat what you said? or be more specific? I wasn't having luck with looking through the posts myself. I'm aware of blood tests typing HSV, but it is not accurate without symptoms according to everyone in the health center. -
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 5:07 PMThey're not telling you the newest information. The new blood test is accurate and is called "herpes select".
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 7:28 AMIncidentally, because you keep bringing this up, Ann, I just want to say something about the daily acyclovir you take. I'm all for it if it prevents frequent outbreaks in someone, because I don't feel that people should have to live with constant itchiness and pain. However, I really fear the consequences of people without frequent outbreaks doing this. If more people take daily acyclovir or valcyclovir (same thing, but with an added component that makes the active chemical more biologically available), more strains of resistant HSV will develop. This worries me because HSV can cause serious disease and death in infants and some adults, and acyclovir and valcyclovir are currently the only really effective means of treating such infections when they happen. If there are more resistant strains around, then it will be harder to treat serious HSV infections when they occur, and I don't like that at all. I'm consequently very very worried about the current trend to prescribe antivirals to people as a means of preventing transmission. The drugs are expensive, they are largely unecessary for people without frequent or severe outbreaks, and there are already several strains of resistant HSV around. Not creating more of them would be a very good thing.
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 7:32 AMp.s. He didn't DO anything to you. You kissed him, you caught a virus. You won't be DOING anything to someone else if they catch it from you. -
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 7:58 PMIt is nice to be able to give people the option to make an educated decision about the risk. When someone doesn't disclose and you end up catching the virus from your exposure to them, I find it difficult to not feel robbed of my chance to have made that choice for myself. -
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Re: When have you told?
Tue, June 13, 2006 - 6:39 AM26 years ago, not everyone knew that herpes caused cold sores. This guy didn't. And she'd likely have it by now whether she'd kissed this particular guy or not. She's in her fifties, and about 70%-80% of the population has it by that time, and most people get it from people who don't know they have it. The thing isn't exactly unavoidable, but it's damned close. -
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Re: When have you told?
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 3:48 PMClaire, I get the impression that you do not like me.
The main reason I am taking the acyclovir to help prevent outbreaks. I get cold sores when stressed. I have one now but the last one was a few years ago. I have fibromyalgia and chronic back pain and I am dealing with a lot of physical stress, so when something else happens on top of the physical stuff, I can have a hard time handeling it. Also, things seem to affect me more than other people. There was a bug going around at the Loving More conference and it really hit me hard, much harder than most.
I only reccently found out that the acyclovir will help prevent transmission and it will also help prevent me from getting genital herpes.
I try to always tell before kissing. The interesting thing is that if 70 - 80% of adults have itby their fifties, how come I am rarely told by my partners? The percentage of my lovers in the last 18 months who have cold sores is about 20% and genital herpes is about 2%, very much under the percentages they should be. My conclusion is that I am being lied to. They could not know that they have it but it does not seem likely.
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Re: When have you told?
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 6:12 PM" Claire, I get the impression that you do not like me. "
Not true. I don't know you. I just don't like how you word things sometimes (sounds victimy, and that bugs me), *and* I worry that too many people will read your posts about that and decide they really should start taking acyclovir, it's heavily advertised right now, and I've gotta say something about it. Sorry 'bout that impression. Just debating.
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Re: When have you told?
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 6:24 PM""The interesting thing is that if 70 - 80% of adults have itby their fifties, how come I am rarely told by my partners? The percentage of my lovers in the last 18 months who have cold sores is about 20% and genital herpes is about 2%, very much under the percentages they should be. My conclusion is that I am being lied to. They could not know that they have it but it does not seem likely. ""
MOST PEOPLE NEVER KNOW THEY HAVE IT. Most people never get sick. Most people who do get sick get sick once, and it's often mild. Since herpes is not screened for in blood tests, only about 10% of the people who have any type of herpes know that they have it. So, it's unlikely that you're being "lied" to, though it's likely that information about that itchy spot they had on their lip for a day and a half 15 years ago isn't crossing their mind when they're discussing STI status with you. Those numbers are expected for a group of people who are being told they are being tested for "everything" at the clinic, and figure that includes herpes.
p.s. Again, it's not that I don't like you, and I'm not saying this to be negative, but if you can say "2%", it means that you must've had at least 50 lovers. HPV is even more frequently asymptomatic, can't be tested for in men, and is only unreliably tested for in women. It's also more common. How many people have told you they have that? -
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Re: When have you told?
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 7:06 PMor being told they can't be tested for herpes without a sore... -
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Re: When have you told?
Fri, June 23, 2006 - 6:59 PMWhen I tested positive for oral herpes I had never had a cold sore. I wonder how many people I kissed and passed it to?
I found out that I had genital herpes during a routine pap test. I had been tested for it routinely several times over the years (when they swab you) , but never tested positive!!! I must have outbreaks on my cervix since I have never had any sores that I noticed. I decided to get the blood test.
Only when I got the blood test results back did I realize I was positive for both types of herpes oral and genital.
It's a real drag as far as telling potential partners because I never know if I'm having an outbreak or not, since I'm asymptomatic...;o(
I have no idea where I picked up the viruses...but probably a long time ago when I was a lil' wild thing...;o)) -
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Re: When have you told?
Sun, June 25, 2006 - 8:28 AMOh....but my point....
I don't tell for oral....( oh when I have the" have you been tested?" conversation I will say that I test positive for both. I always tell about the genital before any sex beyong kissing)
I think that it's a too common and fairly benign virus. Since I don't ever have cold sores, what am I to do? Stop kissing altogether as I might be "shedding" and not realize it ? Lot's of folks get the oral virus from their Great Aunt Bertha when they are three years old....or Janey in preschool....
People make way too much of a big deal about herpes, in my opinion. Maybe I would, too, if I actually had outbreaks all the time...but what are we talking about here for most people? A few blisters or sores on the skin now and then that go away in a few days?
If or when herpes is connected to a larger problem..(Remember when doctors thought it might be a precursor to cervical cancer?)
THEN I will worry. But for now, there's lots more dangerous and scary STD's.
Oh...my GP told me that herpes is now so prevelant it's not really classified as a STD anymore... -
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 3:42 PMConcerning oral HSV, I've been denied pleanty enough times because I have HSV-1 genitally. It's what usually causes cold sores. I can't imagine if I ended up with both oral and genital! If I had to choose I'd pick what I've got. Despite all the heartache it's brought me, I've always been glad I could kiss my lovers and give them oral sex if I wanted to even if I was sick. Snuggling and kissing isn't something I would want to have to forego, without that part I wouldn't be into the sex anyways...
I've had lovers swear that they didn't think it was a big deal that they had oral, but in the end they can't get over the fact that I have THE SAME VIRUS genitally!
PLEASE, I WANT TO KNOW IF MY PARTNER HAS ORAL!!! -
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 3:50 PM
""I've had lovers swear that they didn't think it was a big deal that they had oral, but in the end they can't get over the fact that I have THE SAME VIRUS genitally!""
Such lovers would not be lovers of mine for very long, this I know. -
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 3:56 PMNo, it's generally something that they disclose that they've remained uncomfortable with shortly before or while they are breaking things off with me.
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 4:15 PMI am 50 years old. I have had oral herpes since very early childhood. Likely from my father giving me a kiss as a baby.
I've never "disclosed" about oral herpes. In fact, it never occured to me to do so until I read this post.
I ran right out and 'disclosed' to my prospective Dominant. He rolled his eyes and said I was being too worried over nothing.
So there you go.
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 7:13 PMOK...let me qualify that...I do believe that it should be made clear to people that they can get oral herpes on their genitals....I guess alot of people don't know that...just like they are not aware that there is a blood test that will tell them if / what kind of herpes they have
I wonder...if in my case...what are the chances that I could pass it anyway, since (knock on wood) I don't have outbreaks that I recognize?
(other than the ones that I assume are internal)
My teenage daughter has oral...coldsores...(from me?) but she is not yet sexually active.
My girlfriend has been married for ten years and has not given her husband her genital herpes yet. All they do is use condoms when she has a breakout! Hers are not all that often...a couple of times a years when she gets really stressed...(she says)
But from what I understand, transmission is more common from man to woman... -
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 7:21 PMOK...now I'm thinking more on this...I don't disclose oral before I kiss someone...but if someone had oral and an outbreak on their lips...it's pretty obvious, right?
So don't kiss them? DEFINATELY don't let them go down on you without a barrior when they have an active outbreak????
On the other hand, I read that oral gives you some immunity against genital...but then when I asked my GP, she said No...
????
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 8:27 PMOral HSV on your genitals will give you some immunity against genital because it's difficult for both types of virus to infect the same nerves. It's always been said that having HSV-1 antibodies in your blood would give you some protection against getting HSV-2, but since most people who have HSV-2 also have HSV-1, it's obviously not much protection.
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 8:31 PM
""I wonder...if in my case...what are the chances that I could pass it anyway, since (knock on wood) I don't have outbreaks that I recognize? ""
Unfortunately, people who are asymptomatic shed virus just as frequently as people who have symptoms--probably less virii at a time, though. At least you know and are telling people about it. That's all you can do, really, and is very cool of you. -
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Scary but true!
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 10:50 PMJust because you are asymptomatic doesn't mean you aren't shedding the virus. While having an outbreak the risk of transmition is higher, but your not 100% safe when you don't have any signs either. Just sucks! -
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Re: Scary but true!
Tue, June 27, 2006 - 3:45 AMYeah....but I wonder how much shedding goes on .
OK....Generally, the longer someone is infected with the herpes virus, the fewer and less severe their outbreaks are.
So...for someone like me...53 years old...no outbreaks...I'm assuming I probably got it in my childhood or early twenties...
does it not make sense that if outbreaks occur less as time goes by, shedding would also??
Oh...and I think I may have gotten Herpes 2 when I was 19...as I remember riding my horse alot wearing jeans and then getting "chafing" that burned when I peed. It may be that I had an initial outbreak that I didn't recognize!
It's just so weird to think that I could have them both for so long and not know it! Or give it to anyone. -
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Re: Scary but true!
Mon, July 3, 2006 - 8:50 AMAnother interesting aside...
When I was initially diagnosed, I thought that it was something that I should tell my former partners..(that wasn't too difficult since I have only had three different ones in the last 15 years)
At first the main longterm ex was alarmed and worried...even tho he had no symptoms nor has his partner of 8 years...he agreed to get the herpes select...but guess what? His doctor talked him out of it since it had been so many years and he had no symptoms!
Why don't some docs even want to admit how many folks may be walking around with herpes and not know it?
Another former partner asked me if I was sure that it wasn't just a false positive. ( I don't think so since it showed up on two different tests)
It might be that my using a diaphragm for many years helped me not give it too anyone...but then I'll never really know.
Why don't people want to get the test once they learn that it's available?( if they have insurance or $$) -
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Please do tlee about oral herpes
Tue, July 4, 2006 - 2:10 PMI think anyone with oral herpes should tell their prospective partners. -
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Re: Please do tell about oral herpes
Tue, July 4, 2006 - 2:20 PMSorry about that last post, it sent itself before i was done.
I do think that people should tell their prospective partners about oral herpes before they get involved, especially before oral sex.
It is not always obvious on someone's lips. I got oral herpes from kissing someone who had it. His was not a huge obvious sore or I would not have kissed him. Mine are so small now that they are hardly noticable. People can not even see mine.
I have been extremely stressed due to a very difficult breakup. Heart ache and crying are not good for the immune system, at least mine. I have had two very small cold sores in the last month and I am taking acyclovir daily. I have also had two yeast infections, a chest cold and a urinary infection.
I have since doubled my daily dose of acyclovir to stop the cold sores. I hope it works. If not I may have to switch to one of the newer more expensive medications.
Before this, I have not had a cold sore in a few years, I cannot remember when i last had one.
Anyway, I think you owe it to your lovers to tell them, educate them and let them make a choice. -
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Re: Please do tell about oral herpes
Wed, July 5, 2006 - 4:59 AMHHHMmmmm....
First of all, how do you know when YOU got oral herpes? Just because you kissed someone with a cold sore, doesn't mean that you didn't already have it and not know it, Ann. Maybe you just never had a break out before...or one you noticed...right?
I think that's why there aren't herpes court cases...how do you ever really prove who passed it to you?
I'm assuming most guys that I'd be kissin' on already are positive, but yeah...maybe we should have "the herpes talk" before we ever kiss. But then they'd have to go get the test, right?
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Re: Please do tell about oral herpes
Thu, July 6, 2006 - 6:07 AMI know that I got oral herpes from kissing someone who had a small sore because I got really sick with a high fever and I had never had a cold sore before.
I went to the Dr. and he sent me to the dermatologist. She told me that the reason I was so sick was because I had just gotten infected with herpes 1. I was really sick, I was in bed for about a week. I had never had a cold sore before in my life. After that I got cold sores regularly for a few years.
I just got the test for herpes 2 and I do not have it. But they only did the test for 2 not for herpes 1.
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Re: When have you told?
Sat, November 11, 2006 - 1:23 PMI recently got diagnosed with hsv 1. I have never been tested for everything before. I was shocked. I have no cold sores and my numberic test was so much higher than need be to be in the positive zone.
At this point I am afraid to go out or do anything. The other thing is that i think this is a real wake up call to me. I have only slept with women who ID as women and I am a woman myself.
Do others with hsv 1 use dental dams etc. In the past my preference was to taste my partners. It was also suggested i get tested for hsv 2 again in about 4-6 weeks just to make sure my test results were the same down below. -
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Re: When have you told?
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 7:50 PMHSV 1 is much less virulent and transmissible than HSV 2. In fact, most research points to the the fact that HSV 1 is thought to be NOT transmissible if there is no outbreak occurring (Hence, the lower incidence of genital HSV 1- think about it, IF 95% of adults test positive for HSV 1 by age 50 and about the same number engage in oral sex at SOME point in their lifetime, then there would be a hell of a lot more people with HSV 1 expressing genitally).
This is what our PA-C and one of the FNPs (who is a national Herpes expert) has related to me. Therefore, I say, get freaky with people who are in the know about these things, and if they aren't in the know, educate. Dental dams are good, though, for preventing other infections such as chlamydia - yes you can get it orally- and gonorrhea and HIV.
Play well, and enjoy.
If you have any questions, I am MORE than happy to try to answer them. I counsel daily with this stuff.
And, to add on, I personally think you should ALWAYS tell. That way you give someone an informed choice. -
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Re: When have you told?
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 8:50 AMHSV 1 is much less virulent and transmissible than HSV 2.
""
Nope, I don't buy this. Many neonate herpes cases are caused by HSV1 and about a third of all genital herpes cases now are caused by HSV1, so I know it's virulent. There are probably many people who have HSV1 genitally but aren't symptomatic. Also, 95% of adults don't test positive for HSV1 by age 50. In the US, it's more like 60% and in Europe it's more like 80%. Overall, I've read in many places that HSV1 is both more virulent and more transmissable ('cause most people don't rub genitals all over drinking glasses or chapstick). Not that either are all that awful to have (I'm bummed about having lost some vision to HSV1, but it coulda been worse). -
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Re: When have you told?
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 7:42 PMFrom what I understand, HSV1 is thought to not transmissible unless it's active (ie a sore). Since there's such a stigma surrounding the word "Herpes," many children pick it up from a family member who has a "fever blister" or a "cold sore" who shares glasses, etc. HSV 2 is transmissible even when an active sore is not present. As I said in my previous post, HSV 1 is *THOUGHT* to not be transmissible when it's not actively a sore, but "THOUGHT" is different than definitvely is or isnt. I believe there are still studies being done on viral shedding in regards to HSV 1, but since type 1 is so ubiquitous and because of its affinity for the Trigeminal Nerve, it rarely expresses genitally, so it's not the focus of research. When I look on PubMed, almost everything that comes up is HSV 2, the strain we commonly call "Herpes" which has an affinity for the Sacral nerve.
Unfortunately, I don't have my epidemiological studies in front of me in regards to absolute percentages (apologies, I should have said "it's thought that a certain percent" - my bad-), but if anyone's interested, there's some great articles on PubMed (if you have a background in biochemistry it helps, although having some understanding of how to read statistical data with some basic biology is enough for most poeple). Just search "seroloprevalence HSV" or simply "HSV" for that matter to see the latest studies being done.
JAMA is also an excellent source of information for studies being done.
Keep in mind that samples/percentages are limited to those who allow themselves to be tested, hence the estimation of actual infections could be much higher. I believe that's why I've been told such high numbers regarding HSV1 in the US. I'm going to check in with the FNP I've been working with and find out where she got her numbers.
The point is that there's some great information and articles out there for people to check out, and if you can read abstracts and are interested in the research, go for it.
And Claire, thanks for posting- I don't take corrections or differences as attacks.
I am curious as to where your stats come from, though, only since the numbers I am familar with are so different. PM me and let me know or drop me a message so I can read up - the last thing I'd like to do is to be giving out false information.
Thank you. -
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Re: When have you told?
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 1:22 AMI respectfully disagree with the statement that HSV 1 is "rarely expressed genitally." While it is true that HSV 1 packs the greatest punch when it is contracted orally due to the fact that in its dormant state HSV 1 resides in the nerves near the ear, there are studies that suggest at least half of herpes outbreaks in the genital region are caused by HSV 1.
A Netherland study conducted from 1996-2001 found that 52% of the subjects had genital outbreaks caused by HSV 1.
(Nieuwenhuis, R.F. et al. (2006). Importance of Herpes Simplex Virus Type-1 (HSV-1) in Primary Genital Herpes. Acta Dermato-Venereologica, 86(2), 129-134)
In 2004, researchers at the University of Pittsburgh reported that:
“In the 1990s, HSV-1 was reported to have replaced HSV-2 as the principle causative agent of genital herpes among young women in Scotland. In an investigation of patients from several Swedish sexually transmitted disease (STD) clinics, nearly 65% of primary genital herpes isolates from all adults were the result of HSV-1, and when only women were considered, the virus accounted for approximately 85% of the primary genital HSV infections. Likewise, in a Norwegian STD clinic, HSV-1 was responsible for 70% to 90% of the first episodes of genital herpes infections in women less than 21 years of age. HSV-1 has also been identified as the most frequent cause of recurrent genital ulcerations among females attending genitourinary medicine clinics in Ireland.”
(Cherpes, T.L. et al. (2005). Cunnilingus and Vaginal Intercourse Are Risk Factors for Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1 Acquisition in Women. Sexually Transmitted Diseases. 32(2), 84-89).
These are just a few examples. The point is that research suggests that while HSV 2 is more likely to recur in the genitals than HSV 1, HSV 1 is becoming more common in genital cases due to changes in sexual behavior.
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