This topic was brought up once before... and at the time I said I had not heard any correlation about it... well... what do you know...
I'm not for or against circumcision, just sharing the info I came across:
www.forbes.com/forbeslife...600122.html
Circumcision Reduces HIV Rates, U.S. Studies Confirm
12.13.06, 12:00 AM ET
WEDNESDAY, Dec. 13 (HealthDay News) -- U.S. researchers in Africa said Wednesday that they found that circumcision is such a good defense against HIV infection that they shut down two studies early, and instead offered all participants a chance to be circumcised.
One study in the east African country of Kenya showed that circumcision cut adult males' HIV infection risk from heterosexual intercourse by 53 percent, while another study in Uganda lowered the risk by 48 percent, according to results released Wednesday.
The findings, financed by the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH), pointed out that the latest conclusions confirmed previous investigations into the value of circumcision as a protection against HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. This is especially important in Africa, where AIDS is an epidemic in many countries, infecting an estimated 25 million people on the continent.
Despite the good news, there is still plenty of reason for caution, AIDS experts said.
"Male circumcision is a difficult intervention to implement, and the preventive effect is relative, not absolute," said Thomas Coates, an AIDS specialist and a professor of medicine at the University of California at Los Angeles. "The magnitude of effect is 50 to 60 percent, which still leaves ample room for people to get infected with HIV."
There are other caveats as well: The study did not look at male-to-female transmission, and it was also not clear whether circumcision makes it less likely that gay men could transmit HIV to each other.
In the United States, homosexual transmission of HIV is more common than heterosexual transmission, the experts said. And most men in the United States are circumcised, making the procedure less effective as a possible prevention tool.
Still, the findings could have plenty of meaning in Africa, where HIV is commonly spread between men and women.
Studies have suggested the value of circumcision in the past, but researchers wanted to confirm the previous findings.
According to the NIH, most adult Africans are circumcised, but the rate drops below 20 percent in some areas of southern Africa where HIV and AIDS are common.
In one of the two studies, researchers enrolled 2,784 HIV-negative, uncircumcised men in Kenya beginning in 2002. The other study, in Uganda, started in 2003 and enrolled 4,996 HIV-negative, uncircumcised men.
Some of the men were assigned to immediately undergo circumcision, while others had to wait two years.
Then researchers studied whether the circumcision had any effect on their rates of getting HIV.
The results were so encouraging that an oversight board halted the studies this week, and ordered that all participants be given circumcisions instead of having to wait.
In Kenya, researchers found that only 22 of the 1,393 circumcised men in the study were infected with HIV, compared to 47 of the 1,391 men who had yet to be circumcised.
The numbers for Uganda weren't immediately available.
"Circumcision is now a proven, effective prevention strategy to reduce HIV infections in men," Robert Bailey, a study investigator and professor of epidemiology at the University of Illinois at Chicago, said in a statement.
It's not entirely clear how circumcision reduces HIV infection. But researchers have suggested that the foreskin may provide a moist, safe environment for the AIDS virus and provide more immune cells for HIV to infect.
Coates called the study results the "second greatest finding in HIV prevention," right behind research that confirmed drugs could stop mother-to-baby transmission of the AIDS virus.
Still, he added, "combination prevention" remains crucial -- combining circumcision with using condoms, reducing sexual partners, and delaying the first time people have intercourse.
The Associated Press reported that the link between male circumcision and HIV prevention was first noted in the late 1980s. The first major clinical trial, of 3,000 men in South Africa, found last year that circumcision cut the HIV risk by 60 percent.
More information
The Nemours Foundation's Web site discusses the pros and cons of circumcision.
I'm not for or against circumcision, just sharing the info I came across:
www.forbes.com/forbeslife...600122.html
Circumcision Reduces HIV Rates, U.S. Studies Confirm
12.13.06, 12:00 AM ET
WEDNESDAY, Dec. 13 (HealthDay News) -- U.S. researchers in Africa said Wednesday that they found that circumcision is such a good defense against HIV infection that they shut down two studies early, and instead offered all participants a chance to be circumcised.
One study in the east African country of Kenya showed that circumcision cut adult males' HIV infection risk from heterosexual intercourse by 53 percent, while another study in Uganda lowered the risk by 48 percent, according to results released Wednesday.
The findings, financed by the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH), pointed out that the latest conclusions confirmed previous investigations into the value of circumcision as a protection against HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. This is especially important in Africa, where AIDS is an epidemic in many countries, infecting an estimated 25 million people on the continent.
Despite the good news, there is still plenty of reason for caution, AIDS experts said.
"Male circumcision is a difficult intervention to implement, and the preventive effect is relative, not absolute," said Thomas Coates, an AIDS specialist and a professor of medicine at the University of California at Los Angeles. "The magnitude of effect is 50 to 60 percent, which still leaves ample room for people to get infected with HIV."
There are other caveats as well: The study did not look at male-to-female transmission, and it was also not clear whether circumcision makes it less likely that gay men could transmit HIV to each other.
In the United States, homosexual transmission of HIV is more common than heterosexual transmission, the experts said. And most men in the United States are circumcised, making the procedure less effective as a possible prevention tool.
Still, the findings could have plenty of meaning in Africa, where HIV is commonly spread between men and women.
Studies have suggested the value of circumcision in the past, but researchers wanted to confirm the previous findings.
According to the NIH, most adult Africans are circumcised, but the rate drops below 20 percent in some areas of southern Africa where HIV and AIDS are common.
In one of the two studies, researchers enrolled 2,784 HIV-negative, uncircumcised men in Kenya beginning in 2002. The other study, in Uganda, started in 2003 and enrolled 4,996 HIV-negative, uncircumcised men.
Some of the men were assigned to immediately undergo circumcision, while others had to wait two years.
Then researchers studied whether the circumcision had any effect on their rates of getting HIV.
The results were so encouraging that an oversight board halted the studies this week, and ordered that all participants be given circumcisions instead of having to wait.
In Kenya, researchers found that only 22 of the 1,393 circumcised men in the study were infected with HIV, compared to 47 of the 1,391 men who had yet to be circumcised.
The numbers for Uganda weren't immediately available.
"Circumcision is now a proven, effective prevention strategy to reduce HIV infections in men," Robert Bailey, a study investigator and professor of epidemiology at the University of Illinois at Chicago, said in a statement.
It's not entirely clear how circumcision reduces HIV infection. But researchers have suggested that the foreskin may provide a moist, safe environment for the AIDS virus and provide more immune cells for HIV to infect.
Coates called the study results the "second greatest finding in HIV prevention," right behind research that confirmed drugs could stop mother-to-baby transmission of the AIDS virus.
Still, he added, "combination prevention" remains crucial -- combining circumcision with using condoms, reducing sexual partners, and delaying the first time people have intercourse.
The Associated Press reported that the link between male circumcision and HIV prevention was first noted in the late 1980s. The first major clinical trial, of 3,000 men in South Africa, found last year that circumcision cut the HIV risk by 60 percent.
More information
The Nemours Foundation's Web site discusses the pros and cons of circumcision.
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 1:06 AMI wonder if this has nothing to do with circumcision per se; but access to medical. Medical objects, medical meme, medical treatment.
over circ being really better for you and not just ad hoc reasoning.
Hmmm. -
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 2:11 AMI'm just wondering:
If someone has their foreskin removed as an adult male, how might that affect one's desire or ability to have sex over the next year or two? There could be some intervening variables here...
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 8:50 AMI'm with Spartca on this one. Adult males who get circumsized likely have a lot less sex, thus less HIV exposure.
I bet if you completely amputate the penis from half the men in a study, the men with the surgery will acquire HIV at a lower rate than intact men.
Jeebus, some people (including doctors) don't understand much about scientific research.
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 9:49 AMAny research can be biased... it will be good to see more research conducted. Especially in this tribe I try to only put studies, articles, and links to other sites about info - cause honestly, I think it's better for the public then hearing what folks "think" about the subject. However, don't get me wrong I LOVE discussion of all these topics and welcome opinions of all sorts (if I didn't I'd leave the tribe). I don't have time right now to do more research, but I'd also like to know more details cause correlation does not always equal causation. -
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 9:54 AMHmmm... this article actually goes into why they think this result happened. Below is the link to the entire article and two paragraphs from it :
www.nytimes.com/2006/12/14.../14hiv.html
Uncircumcised men are thought to be more susceptible because the underside of the foreskin is rich in Langerhans cells, sentinel cells of the immune system, which attach easily to the human immunodeficiency virus, which causes AIDS. The foreskin also often suffers small tears during intercourse.
But experts also cautioned that circumcision is no cure-all. It only lessens the chances that a man will catch the virus; it is expensive compared to condoms, abstinence or other methods; and the surgery has serious risks if performed by folk healers using dirty blades, as often happens in rural Africa.
**** and***'
Male circumcision also benefits women. For example, a study of the medical records of 300 Ugandan couples last year estimated that circumcised men infected with H.I.V. were about 30 percent less likely to transmit it to their female partners.
Earlier studies on Western men have shown that circumcision significantly reduces the rate at which men infect women with the virus that causes cervical cancer. A study published in 2002 in The New England Journal of Medicine found that uncircumcised men were about three times as likely as circumcised ones with a similar number of sexual partners to carry the human papillomavirus.
The suspected mechanism was the same — cells on the inside of the foreskin were also more susceptible to that virus, which is not closely related to H.I.V.
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Oh and P.S. if it seems I'm pushing this... I have to admit I get a little... not sure what to call it... when folks dismiss medical research where PhD's, Universities, and Governments have worked hard simpled because of their ethical point of view on the subject. I'm all for simplying saying "I don't dig Circumcision because... blah blah blah..." but to assume that the researchers don't know anything or have not considered issues of more or less sex during their study is a pretty blantant statement. Why be so reluctant to learn and/or accept what is being tried and tested and in many cases proven effective. To my knowledge circumcision - at leat in the US - is still elective. -
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 12:47 PMI buy that it provides some benefit in places where people don't f----ing use condoms, even when they're accessible. I do not buy that circumcision will a) prevent all circumcized men from becoming infected or b) significantly affect infection rates for men who use condoms regularly (though I'm open to evidence to the contrary). Therefore, while it may help men who are being irresponsible anyway, it seems a bad solution to the overall problem. To me, pushing circumcision as a solution for an entire populace seems irresponsible when a much more reliable solution depends only on convincing men to wear condoms. (clearly, a task people have had some difficulty with, but *come* *on*. There's gotta be some way to get it through thick skulls that latex is good for you) -
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 2:14 PM"I buy that it provides some benefit in places where people don't f----ing use condoms, even when they're accessible."
You mean like the United States? ;) -
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 3:30 PMIn the US, condoms are used by more people than in most developing nations, partly 'cause we have better condoms. Aaaaand I admit to guilt on this, myself, when test results are acceptable and I'm in an irrelevant but persuasive emotional relationship:) -
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 3:51 PMI was reading somewhere that 60% of women report not having used a condom in the last year here in the US... where was that... hm... -
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 4:06 PMI'd say 60% is pretty accurate for here. However, I don't know anyone here who's never tried using condoms, and who doesn't use them routinely with new partners who haven't been tested... We use them frequently, comparatively. -
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 4:39 PMI agree - more people use them here because we have access and education around safer sex.
Education seems to be the main element in both first- and third-world countries when it comes to reproductive health.
That said, I am always surprised when I hear anecdotal evidence from friends all around about the risks that they actually take... one woman explained it to me this way: "Who wants to deny themselves the guilty pleasure of unprotected sex? I pretend it's the guy who's pressuring me to do it, but I really want to as much as he does." -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 6:03 PM"one woman explained it to me this way: "Who wants to deny themselves the guilty pleasure of unprotected sex? I pretend it's the guy who's pressuring me to do it, but I really want to as much as he does.""
Gahhhh, thats EXACTLY why I use condoms 100% of the time, unless I have test results in a monogamous relationship(and granted, even that isn't 100%). Shit like that FREAKS ME OUT.
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 3:01 PM"To my knowledge circumcision - at leat in the US - is still elective. "
It's not elective if your parents decide for you before you can protest.
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 2:15 PMLol it "cut" their risk... -
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 7:26 PMBuwhahahahaha......
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Re: Circumcision and HIV
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 2:56 PM
"In Kenya, researchers found that only 22 of the 1,393 circumcised men in the study were infected with HIV, compared to 47 of the 1,391 men who had yet to be circumcised."
So genitally mutliate 1,3070 men in order to prevent 25 cases of transmission when they can all be prevented by condom use. Why are people so focused on forcing solutions on problems that don't exits?
All this proves is that getting circumcised won't prevent you from contracting HIV.
There's 22 cases to prove this point.
How about education and promotion of condoms which actually are effective in preventing transmission *in both directions* ?
Now there are 2,000 other men who have been told by their doctors that if they're circumcised they don't have to think as much about HIV
Great move asshats.
