'ello all. I got the following info and link from my previous AIDS doc in NYC who is quoted inside this link - America has yet to accept/advertise the information (no surprise) but Swiss/European studies show CONDOM FREE sex is safe if HIV+ person has no viral load for > 6 months, is on meds and monitored regularly, and no active STD co-infections. It''s a little imbedded in the page - look about 1/2 way down for the straight dope:
mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2008_0...ve.html

WOW. that means I may actually be able to fuck without a condom again in my life?? How absolutely weird after convincing myself it didn't really matter . . . wanted you all to know as your replies to my previous topic about being positive and the issues/rejections that go with it were so absolutely wonderful, candid, loving.

what's your reaction? still scared? that scared thing's always such a trip . . . whatever our fears are . . .
posted by:
  • It's a very promising study, but definitely warrants caution. Monogamy, consistently undetectable viral load, and an absence of STDs are among some of the necessary conditions for HAART to be effective at preventing transmission, just like condom usage. It'd also be nice to see these studies replicated, but they're being done and should be published in the next few years. God knows we wouldn't want mainstream media to mention anything about it tho.

    I tried to find the article, but my coffee hasn't yet allowed me to figure out how to translate it. Here's the citation in case anyone's interested in reading it.


    Vernazza P et al. Les personnes séropositives ne souffrant d'aucune autre MST et suivant un traitment antirétroviral efficace ne transmettent pas le VIH par voie sexuelle. Bulletin des médecins suisses 89 (5), 2008.

    www.saez.ch/html_f/2008/2008-05.Html
  • I'm still skeptical, even though I haven't read it. What if someone misses a dose, or their virus acts up again or mutates or something?
    • exactly...I'm not extremely familiar with the requirements, but I do know that missing a dose can screw up your viral load. I want to say it's every six months they wanted to make sure your viral load was still down.
      • hi all, ok, i let the previous remark go as he admitted he hadn't even read it before hitting keys to comment . . . now i'll chime in a minute . . . missing a dose, or two, is common to life. no biggie. we try not to but your viral isn't gonna go nuts if you do. just don't let it become a habit. the point was keep in touch with your situation and monitor it with your doc. the article explains how and where in your body viral activity occurs and sexual fluids were found not to have it when viral load is 'undetectable' . . .
        • I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, if this really is true it's fantastic news! But people with HIV still need to tell potential partners about their status, and it's up to the partner if he/she feels safe, so don't get too offended if the partner still doesn't want to have sex, even after they've read the article. I remember when the health establishment told us that certain kinds of sex were safe, and then they told us that "oops, we were wrong, noone's completely safe".

          OK I just read the paper. I like it but I gotta tell you I'm still a little skeptical, not because I think the authors are lying or incompetent or anything like that, but big claims like this require many different groups of scientists to check it out, do their own experiments and studies, it can take awhile to confirm things. This happens in science all the time. I think it's a very promising conclusion with all sorts of good implications, but I'm still a little skeptical.
  • As a test counselor, I am hoping not to many people read it, because people will read into it what they will. I need to print a copy and show it to some people.
    I am just a bit worried, our health fluxates (spelling ) much.
    • I found another link to the article: www.aidsmap.org/en/news/4E...FCCD36B.asp

      What I'm curious about is the risk of transmission of drug-resistant HIV from someone with an 'undetectable' viral load.
      • First, let me preface this by saying that I do believe that it can be absolutely true and possible, regardless of how much I want it to be.

        Second, I must admit - it truly terrifies me.

        If this were a Utopian world (well, one that had viruses) and we could absolutely trust another, then I wouldn't see any harm in this information being released. However, that is not where we live. It is far to easy to misdirect the truth, and honestly, in the possibility of a substantial relationship, far too many people would be more than willing to believe it.... If a person with HIV but non-detectable viral load even bothered to mention it at all, due to these findings.

        I have most certainly have hidden the truth in the beginning, but I have been very fortunate in not transmitting the virus to any of my lovers - as far as I know. A far deeper story is in the spaces between these words, but I have reason to believe that no one has been infected by me.

        And... third. Perhaps the most important.
        There's always the "what if?" factor. Imagine if a person you love with all of your soul wanted to have unprotected sex with you. You talked about the risks, showed them the studies, educated them as much as possible, and ultimately, it was their decision...
        but they contracted the virus nonetheless. Even though everything looked like it would work, like it was possible, that the dreams of one day feeling the flesh of the person you love and not the condom, of knowing, again, that sacred intimacy - ... what if...

        I can't express to you how much I want that, to lay with a lover and completely be with her, no barriers, no walls - - and I don't think I need to to many of you. It is not a death sentence anymore, and it is quite manageable - but still - think about the first time you were told you were HIV+, remember the emotions. Think about the struggle just because of it, and occasionally, the fear of the smallest infection that seems to take a bit longer to go away- just hoping it does...

        This information is wonderful, but it can be abused FAR to easily.

        Or be slightly incorrect. Just slightly enough.

        Yeah - for many reasons, it terrifies me - but it also fills me with hope - but only if it is offered only to responsible people who don't use it for their own gain.

        I believe that is the only way fighting this virus - and most importantly being kept up on studies, will actually progress to a point where the research does far beyond finding better meds for the pharmaceutical companies to make more money on, and perhaps someday we will be able to live normal lives with lovers again - but we need to prove to them that we are worth it and won’t abuse any positive information that slips our way…

        • just to put this info out there as well, one item in a bunch of stats about HIV in a relatively recent POZ magazine article was that 40% of people who are HIV+ don't disclose anyway. I have a rotten memory and am not sure exactly about the 40% but it was something around that, I was shocked . . . will be back in SF soon and will find the mag, its around my place somewhere . . .
          • The lack of disclosure for one reason is the shame people have when they contract and STD, when alteast 40% of the population has some form of STD sometime in there lives. Also in this culture of the US, and else where. There is alot of shame about sex.
            Also we are not really taught how to commuicate about all of above, or in general.
            This is also why we tell people "think of evey one as postive, to protect yourself"
    • i'm very curious about your statement that you hope not too many people will read it?? being a sexual pariah is no fucking fun and yes of course some people will twist the truth of it to their liking but then that's what people do with everything. for those of us positive it is a huge relief, even continuing to use condoms it is just a relief. and it changes nothing about the moral obligation of full disclosure (to me . . .). I would think that whether the no viral load is caused by drugs or just exists the effect is the same. if no viral load means not sexually transmittable then why the person has no viral load should not matter.
      • I will say sWitch-

        "and it changes nothing about the moral obligation of full disclosure (to me . . .)"

        To you.

        I think I can count on one (ok, maybe both) hands the number of people who have told me upfront that they have, say, herpes, or HPV. The likelihood of some amongst them having it is pretty good. Granted, we have safer sex anyway... but still.

        If that's the kind of disclosure people offer up for things that aren't as stigmatized... do you really think reading that HIV might not transmit under certain conditions would persuade them to be more upfront, or less...?
        • people have to live with the secrets they keep from each other. I cant speculate for others. I know I have + friends with no viral load for a long time who are now having unprotected sex with the happy consent of their partners and it is a great blessing for them emotionally, physically, etc and people are entitled to information to make their own decisions based on all the facts and not what anybody feels is safe for them to know. that's all.
  • I was taking to a guy from a pharmaceutical company last week; we get them sometimes at my job (we don't by meds for promote them).
    He was telling me that when you test the blood for a viral load, and it shows up with no viral load, it might be different compared to the viral load in semen. also the fluxation of the viral load, its kind of a gamble.

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